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Title: Make Context._clamp public in decimal module
Type: enhancement Stage: test needed
Components: Library (Lib) Versions: Python 3.2
Status: closed Resolution: accepted
Dependencies: Superseder:
Assigned To: mark.dickinson Nosy List: facundobatista, mark.dickinson, rhettinger, skrah
Priority: normal Keywords: patch

Created on 2010-04-26 17:45 by mark.dickinson, last changed 2022-04-11 14:57 by admin. This issue is now closed.

File name Uploaded Description Edit
decimal_public_clamp.patch mark.dickinson, 2010-05-22 11:37
Messages (15)
msg104263 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-04-26 17:45
The Context class in the decimal module has a hidden _clamp attribute, that controls whether to clamp values with large exponents.  (Clamping a Decimal value involves adding extra significant zeros to decrease its exponent, while not altering the numeric value;  it's sometimes necessary to get the exponent within a legal range).

I think we should consider making this attribute public (documenting it, having it appear in the __str__ or __repr__ of a Context), for a couple of reasons:

(1) It's necessary for full compliance with the specification:  Python's default behaviour is actually non-compliant with the spec;  it's only after doing getcontext()._clamp = 1 that it complies.

(2) Clamping is necessary for modeling the standard formats described in IEEE 754-2008 (decimal64, decimal128), etc.  These formats are coming into use in other languages (gcc already supports them and C201x may well include them).  To be able to communicate effectively with other languages using these formats, it would be useful to expose Context._clamp.
msg104306 - (view) Author: Stefan Krah (skrah) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-04-27 09:53
(1) Perhaps I missed the relevant part in the spec, so I had to check
what decNumber does: In the default context, clamp is 0, in the extended
contexts, it is 1. So Python's ExtendedContext should indeed set _clamp
to 1.

(2) I agree about the importance of the formats, and I think they should
be explicitly selectable like here:

The current ExtendedContext is a bit of a vague concept, since it
should be exactly one of DECIMAL32, DECIMAL64 or DECIMAL128. And
none of these has prec=9.
msg104307 - (view) Author: Stefan Krah (skrah) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-04-27 10:07
I knew it was somewhere: In the test case description, clamp=0 is
specified as the default:
msg104308 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-04-27 10:15
Hmm.  Yes, the spec itself is rather vague on the subject of clamping, so I withdraw my claim that clamping is necessary for compliance with the spec.  It *is* necessary to make the those testcases with 'clamp=1' pass, though.

So from the point of view of compliance with the specification it's fine to leave the _clamp attribute private.

I agree it would be useful to give easy access to the IEEE 754 formats, though, for interoperability with C and Java (thanks for the Java link!).  The most important formats are decimal32, decimal64 and decimal128, but IEEE 754 also specifies parameters for decimal{k} where k is any multiple of 32 bits.
msg104310 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-04-27 10:50
Re: ExtendedContext, the comments in say:

# Pre-made alternate contexts offered by the specification
# Don't change these; the user should be able to select these
# contexts and be able to reproduce results from other implementations
# of the spec.

This doesn't make a lot of sense to me, since (as Stefan says) the choice of precision 9 doesn't seem to come from the specification.

However, the current ExtendedContext is used extensively in doctests and elsewhere;  it would be awkward to change it now.  I think adding the IEEE formats and encouraging users to use those in place of ExtendedContext might be the best bet.

I'd also still want to make _clamp public in this case, to avoid people wondering why two apparently identical contexts (one with _clamp=1, one with _clamp=0) can lead to different results.
msg104322 - (view) Author: Stefan Krah (skrah) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-04-27 14:07
I'd prefer to drop the ExtendedContext completely. Reasons are:

  1) _clamp, prec, emin and emax aren't set to IEEE754 values.

  2) The use of 'extended' is decNumber specific (see ). In IEEE754
     'extended' has yet another meaning (AFAICS).

I can see that it is awkward to remove it, but if there's consensus
I'd be willing to work on a patch.

Making clamp visible sounds fine to me. (Personally, I'd rather have
capitals non-visible.)

If we make Decimal{32,64,128} contexts available, we should document exactly how the arithmetic deviates from IEEE754.
msg104344 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-04-27 18:10
> I'd prefer to drop the ExtendedContext completely.

We have to be careful not to break existing 3rd party code, though.  A newly-designed decimal module, prepared with 20/20 hindsight, probably wouldn't include an ExtendedContext with the current definition. But we're not dealing with a newly-designed module:  we're dealing with a well-established and well-used module, so there's not a lot of scope for removals or major behaviour changes.

Personally, I don't think the design error (if there is a design error here) is big enough to make it worth breaking backwards compatibility.  I'd rather leave ExtendedContext in for the duration of Python 3.x, but introduce better options and steer (via the documentation) new decimal users towards those.

(BTW, Python takes backwards compatibility pretty seriously:  see PEP 387 for a write-up of the policy.)

> If we make Decimal{32,64,128} contexts available, we should document exactly how the arithmetic deviates from IEEE754.

Possibly, though that's less important to me than just being able to read and write values in these formats produced by other systems.

Were you thinking of any deviations in particular?

Making clamp public should be straightforward enough though, and is independent of the changes discussed above;  I'll see if I can come up with a patch.  (Even here, though, I think it makes sense to leave the private _clamp attribute in place in case people are using it;  a new public 'clamp' property can be added that wraps the _clamp attribute.)
msg104504 - (view) Author: Stefan Krah (skrah) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-04-29 13:33
> Were you thinking of any deviations in particular?

More or less a commentary on what is listed here:

  ==> Restrictions

I only have a draft of IEEE754, but for instance I can't find a power
or remainder-near function there.
msg106290 - (view) Author: Stefan Krah (skrah) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-05-22 10:11
I'm busy implementing the IEEE754 contexts for cdecimal. To keep things
in sync, it would be nice to agree how they should be created.


1) c = Decimal64Context

2) c = Context(Decimal64)

3) ?

I have a preference for 2). It's clear that you get a new Object and
the user does not have to wonder if a template context will be
contaminated when using setcontext(Decimal64Context).

(I know there are measures against that, but setcontext( Context(Decimal64))
is explicit rather than implicit.)
msg106292 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-05-22 10:18
> 1) c = Decimal64Context
> 2) c = Context(Decimal64)

Rather that complicating the Context constructor, I'd prefer a separate factory function.  I was thinking of something like:

def IEEEContext(n):
    """Return the decimal<n> IEEE 754 context.  n should be a multiple
    of 32."""

Again, it's clear with this that you get a new context object (I agree that there are problems with (1) and the mutability of Contexts).
msg106293 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-05-22 10:25
BTW, let's open another issue for support of the IEEE 754 contexts, and keep this one for exposing _clamp.  Otherwise life gets confusing when you're trying to decide when an issue can be closed, etc...
msg106300 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-05-22 11:37
Here's a patch for changing '_clamp' into 'clamp'.
msg106305 - (view) Author: Stefan Krah (skrah) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-05-22 12:56
The patch looks good, +1 for applying it. I'm not a native speaker, but

"are subject to clamping this manner" => "are subject to clamping in this manner"
msg106320 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2010-05-22 18:36
Thanks for catching the doc typo!  Actually, I didn't like that doc addition anyway, so I rewrote it.

Committed in r81476.
msg146285 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2011-10-24 09:33
New changeset 221638ba5d2a by Mark Dickinson in branch 'default':
Issue #13248, issue #8540: Remove deprecated Context._clamp attribute from Decimal module.
Date User Action Args
2022-04-11 14:57:00adminsetgithub: 52786
2011-10-24 09:33:52mark.dickinsonsetmessages: + msg146285
2010-05-22 18:36:28mark.dickinsonsetstatus: open -> closed
resolution: accepted
messages: + msg106320
2010-05-22 12:56:16skrahsetmessages: + msg106305
2010-05-22 11:37:59mark.dickinsonsetfiles: + decimal_public_clamp.patch
keywords: + patch
messages: + msg106300
2010-05-22 10:25:30mark.dickinsonsetmessages: + msg106293
2010-05-22 10:18:14mark.dickinsonsetmessages: + msg106292
2010-05-22 10:11:27skrahsetmessages: + msg106290
2010-04-30 12:25:29mark.dickinsonsetassignee: mark.dickinson
2010-04-29 13:33:50skrahsetmessages: + msg104504
2010-04-27 18:10:43mark.dickinsonsetmessages: + msg104344
2010-04-27 14:07:40skrahsetmessages: + msg104322
2010-04-27 10:50:31mark.dickinsonsetmessages: + msg104310
2010-04-27 10:15:54mark.dickinsonsetmessages: + msg104308
2010-04-27 10:07:30skrahsetmessages: + msg104307
2010-04-27 09:53:53skrahsetmessages: + msg104306
2010-04-26 20:12:18mark.dickinsonsetpriority: normal
2010-04-26 17:45:30mark.dickinsoncreate