classification
Title: Docs: Using Python on a Macintosh has bad info per Apple site
Type: enhancement Stage: needs patch
Components: Documentation, macOS Versions: Python 3.11, Python 3.10, Python 3.9
process
Status: open Resolution:
Dependencies: Superseder:
Assigned To: ned.deily Nosy List: Old Sub Sailor, TotallyLost, docs@python, griswolf, ned.deily, remi.lapeyre, ronaldoussoren, tomy0000000
Priority: high Keywords:

Created on 2018-02-11 23:42 by griswolf, last changed 2021-04-29 13:39 by Old Sub Sailor.

Messages (8)
msg312023 - (view) Author: Frank Griswold (griswolf) Date: 2018-02-11 23:42
This chunk of docs has bad info in both Python2 and Python3 docs:

4.1.3. Configuration

Python on OS X honors all standard Unix environment variables such as PYTHONPATH, but setting these variables for programs started from the Finder is non-standard as the Finder does not read your .profile or .cshrc at startup. You need to create a file ~/.MacOSX/environment.plist. See Apple’s Technical Document QA1067 for details.

If you search for QA1067, you are informed that the document is legacy and unsupported, with a suggestion for where to look now. That suggested link leads to a 404.

Searching the apple site, I find that at least some thoughtful developers think that configuring the environment isn't even possible, generally; and isn't considered good form even if so. Here:
https://forums.developer.apple.com/message/217422

I have no problem setting things for my terminal, as a longtime (unix) user, but for others, this section probably needs a complete examination with an eye toward making it current. quite possibly by reorganizing it.
msg312028 - (view) Author: Ned Deily (ned.deily) * (Python committer) Date: 2018-02-12 04:41
Thanks for the reminder.  Yes, the whole "Using Python on a Macintosh" section is very much out-of-date and needs a complete rewrite.  It has been on my To Do list for a long time; I'll see what I can do to expedite it.
msg368542 - (view) Author: Glenn Travis (TotallyLost) Date: 2020-05-09 21:02
So, how do we wake this sleeping concern up?
msg368545 - (view) Author: Rémi Lapeyre (remi.lapeyre) * Date: 2020-05-09 21:15
Hi Gleen, the best way forward is to propose an improvement to the current documentation. It will get reviewed and merge if appropriate.

The source for this part is at https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/master/Doc/using/mac.rst and you can find the information needed to contribute in the Python Dev Guide: https://devguide.python.org/.
msg368548 - (view) Author: Glenn Travis (Old Sub Sailor) Date: 2020-05-09 21:36
Thank you Remi

> On May 9, 2020, at 4:15 PM, Rémi Lapeyre <report@bugs.python.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Rémi Lapeyre <remi.lapeyre@henki.fr> added the comment:
> 
> Hi Gleen, the best way forward is to propose an improvement to the current documentation. It will get reviewed and merge if appropriate.
> 
> The source for this part is at https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/master/Doc/using/mac.rst and you can find the information needed to contribute in the Python Dev Guide: https://devguide.python.org/.
> 
> ----------
> nosy: +remi.lapeyre
> 
> _______________________________________
> Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org>
> <https://bugs.python.org/issue32824>
> _______________________________________
msg368558 - (view) Author: Glenn Travis (Old Sub Sailor) Date: 2020-05-10 01:17
Thank you, but how in the world does one know where to look or find that document at github.  I tried to search earlier and got hundreds of listings for python doc. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 9, 2020, at 16:36, Glenn Travis <pbfuddle@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Thank you Remi
> 
> 
>> On May 9, 2020, at 4:15 PM, Rémi Lapeyre <report@bugs.python.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Rémi Lapeyre <remi.lapeyre@henki.fr> added the comment:
>> 
>> Hi Gleen, the best way forward is to propose an improvement to the current documentation. It will get reviewed and merge if appropriate.
>> 
>> The source for this part is at https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/master/Doc/using/mac.rst and you can find the information needed to contribute in the Python Dev Guide: https://devguide.python.org/.
>> 
>> ----------
>> nosy: +remi.lapeyre
>> 
>> _______________________________________
>> Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org>
>> <https://bugs.python.org/issue32824>
>> _______________________________________
>
msg392259 - (view) Author: Glenn Travis (Old Sub Sailor) Date: 2021-04-28 21:25
I see that this remains alive. I do have a newer question. Apple continues to say that they are going to drop all their included versions of python and I believe ruby in some future version of macOS. I thought that this would happen in Big Sur, but python versions 2.7.16 still remains with us, why, I don’t know.

> On Apr 28, 2021, at 3:21 PM, Irit Katriel <report@bugs.python.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Change by Irit Katriel <iritkatriel@yahoo.com>:
> 
> 
> ----------
> versions: +Python 3.10, Python 3.11, Python 3.9 -Python 2.7, Python 3.6, Python 3.7, Python 3.8
> 
> _______________________________________
> Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org>
> <https://bugs.python.org/issue32824>
> _______________________________________
msg392307 - (view) Author: Glenn Travis (Old Sub Sailor) Date: 2021-04-29 13:39
Here is a copy of the Apple Python call as of April 29, 2021.  To my way of thinking it seems that Apple is saying that someday they will indeed eliminate all the included “scripting” software from macOS and they further imply that one should install an. Up-to-date version of one’s particular chosen software. 

Last login: Thu Apr 29 08:22:47 on console
% python

WARNING: Python 2.7 is not recommended. 
This version is included in macOS for compatibility with legacy software. 
Future versions of macOS will not include Python 2.7. 
Instead, it is recommended that you transition to using 'python3' from within Terminal.

Python 2.7.16 (default, Feb 28 2021, 12:34:25) 
[GCC Apple LLVM 12.0.5 (clang-1205.0.19.59.6) [+internal-os, ptrauth-isa=deploy on darwin
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> exit()
% exit
Saving session...
...copying shared history...
...saving history...truncating history files...
...completed.

[Process completed]

> On Apr 28, 2021, at 4:25 PM, Glenn Travis <report@bugs.python.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Glenn Travis <pbfuddle@comcast.net> added the comment:
> 
> I see that this remains alive. I do have a newer question. Apple continues to say that they are going to drop all their included versions of python and I believe ruby in some future version of macOS. I thought that this would happen in Big Sur, but python versions 2.7.16 still remains with us, why, I don’t know.
> 
>> On Apr 28, 2021, at 3:21 PM, Irit Katriel <report@bugs.python.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Change by Irit Katriel <iritkatriel@yahoo.com>:
>> 
>> 
>> ----------
>> versions: +Python 3.10, Python 3.11, Python 3.9 -Python 2.7, Python 3.6, Python 3.7, Python 3.8
>> 
>> _______________________________________
>> Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org>
>> <https://bugs.python.org/issue32824>
>> _______________________________________
> 
> ----------
> 
> _______________________________________
> Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org>
> <https://bugs.python.org/issue32824>
> _______________________________________
History
Date User Action Args
2021-04-29 13:39:59Old Sub Sailorsetmessages: + msg392307
2021-04-28 21:25:34Old Sub Sailorsetmessages: + msg392259
2021-04-28 20:21:18iritkatrielsetversions: + Python 3.9, Python 3.10, Python 3.11, - Python 2.7, Python 3.6, Python 3.7, Python 3.8
2021-03-04 11:53:51tomy0000000setnosy: + tomy0000000
2021-02-08 12:32:55ronaldoussorensetnosy: + ronaldoussoren
components: + macOS
2020-05-10 01:17:18Old Sub Sailorsetmessages: + msg368558
2020-05-09 21:36:32Old Sub Sailorsetnosy: + Old Sub Sailor
messages: + msg368548
2020-05-09 21:15:08remi.lapeyresetnosy: + remi.lapeyre
messages: + msg368545
2020-05-09 21:02:19TotallyLostsetnosy: + TotallyLost
messages: + msg368542
2020-05-09 19:40:36benjamin.petersonlinkissue40580 superseder
2018-02-12 04:41:29ned.deilysetpriority: normal -> high

assignee: docs@python -> ned.deily
versions: + Python 2.7, Python 3.6, Python 3.7, Python 3.8
nosy: + ned.deily

messages: + msg312028
stage: needs patch
2018-02-11 23:42:34griswolfcreate