Author jaraco
Recipients Anthony Sottile, domdfcoding, jaraco, miss-islington
Date 2021-05-29.09:29:11
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Message-id <1622280552.36.0.733590937838.issue44246@roundup.psfhosted.org>
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> there's the tuple subclass which pretends to be a dict.

There's no tuple subclass that's pretending to be a dict. It overrides __getitem__ for convenience. It never claims to support Mapping.

> mypy complains about incorrect types in overrides for both.

I'm unsure what the concern is. If there's an issue, it hasn't been reported to the project. importlib_metadata runs mypy tests with the test suite (all passing) and [twine uses the API with strict mypy checking enabled](https://github.com/pypa/twine/blob/eff3a454df49c6e998d3d21d07ef846d8318e446/twine/cli.py#L43-L69) without any exclusions.

> the worst part of this is that the `__getitem__` moves from O(1) to O(N) (in some private code this makes importlib.metadata on 3.10 _10x slower than on 3.9_)

This issue was revealed during the review and I acknowledged the concern and agreed to address the issue if it mattered. This project has demonstrated its concern for performance issues as are apparent through a number of optimizations in the changelog. In every use case I've seen, the performance is improved by the current approach (a group/sort operation is avoided). If the performance is a concern, I once again welcome a bug report describing the use-case and the impact, though I suspect it's an isolated case and likely would best be addressed outside the official codebase.

> this is an api break with 3.9 which returned a `list`

I acknowledge this break, though I believe the concerns are overblown. The API specifically sought to reduce dependence on receiving a list and instead to provide a more abstract collection. 

> I don't think [introducing behavior in backports] is appropriate.

It's true, the "backport" monkier is a false one here. From the very beginning, these modules first introduced their behavior outside the stdlib and were then ported into CPython. Moreover, the past couple of years have seen substantial refinement and innovation and was able to move much faster and reach stability much faster and with wider adoption than if the library had followed the stardard Python development cadence.

It's quite likely that this project will eventually stabilize to the point that most users do not need the backport, but while it exists, it's providing massive value. Consider the most recent example (https://importlib-metadata.readthedocs.io/en/latest/history.html#v4-3-1) where a performance improvement caused a regression. The regression was detected and fixed within a day. Now when CPython adopts that behavior, we can all have higher confidence in the viability of the implementation.

It would be a pretty big shift to block this approach, but it's not out of the realm of consideration. Still, it's out of scope for this discussion. Feel free to raise it separately.

> [the typing issues] were *trivially solved* by a dictionary comprehension

No such solution was proposed by anybody, but more importantly, I don't believe the solution would have been so trivial and still met the objectives.

> the types describing the new apis require *significant* `# type: ignore`s to pass mypy because they violate basic substitutability.

I'm unaware of this issue and it's not been reported, but I also don't believe it's an issue. Both twine and keyring have adopted the latest API and pass mypy tests.

> they also cannot be used in any of the contexts they were appropriate for in <3.10 (Dict[str, List[EntryPoint]] or List[Entrypoint] depending on the api).

That's right. The API has changed.

> many issues on importlib-metadata

Where "many" ~= 1 (https://github.com/python/importlib_metadata/issues?q=is%3Aissue+DeprecationWarning).

> many issues linking to your deprecation issue

Do you mean https://github.com/python/importlib_metadata/pull/289 or something else? I see ~4 projects (astropy, pytest-randomly, keyring, virtualenv) making mention there. I'd expected the number of projects to be affected to be more than that.

> there is significant toil

I care about toil. A lot. I don't make incompatible changes lightly, and I spent a good deal of time documenting the motivations and providing guidance on how to transition. I've actively worked with each project that's requested help to minimize their toil and provide a one-shot transition to the new API.

> if you look at your issue tracker it has been reported before and by others

I looked and didn't find it. Help me see what I'm missing.

> "the testsuite didn't demonstrate this usecase so I'm free to change it"

That's not the spirit of my words. The API had an intended usage that was borne out by the documentation and tests. If users relied on other interfaces that were incidentally present, the user bears some risk in relying on those behaviors. Still, I accept responsibility to provide a transitional support even for those cases.
History
Date User Action Args
2021-05-29 09:29:12jaracosetrecipients: + jaraco, Anthony Sottile, miss-islington, domdfcoding
2021-05-29 09:29:12jaracosetmessageid: <1622280552.36.0.733590937838.issue44246@roundup.psfhosted.org>
2021-05-29 09:29:12jaracolinkissue44246 messages
2021-05-29 09:29:11jaracocreate