Author lemburg
Recipients Arfrever, ezio.melotti, jkloth, lemburg, mrabarnett, pitrou, r.david.murray, tchrist, terry.reedy
Date 2011-08-15.09:04:58
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Message-id <4E48E136.2090802@egenix.com>
In-reply-to <1313384214.92.0.150594455382.issue12729@psf.upfronthosting.co.za>
Content
> Keep in mind that we should be able to access and use lone surrogates too, therefore:
> s = '\ud800'  # should be valid
> len(s)  # should this raise an error? (or return 0.5 ;)?
> s[0]  # error here too?
> list(s)  # here too?
> 
> p = s + '\udc00'
> len(p)  # 1?
> s[0]  # '\U00010000' ?
> s[1]  # IndexError?
> list(p + 'a')  # ['\ud800\udc00', 'a']?
> 
> We can still decide that strings with lone surrogates work only with a limited number of methods/functions but:
> 1) it's not backward compatible;
> 2) it's not very consistent
> 
> Another thing I noticed is that (at least on wide builds) surrogate pairs are not joined "on the fly":
>>>> p
> '\ud800\udc00'
>>>> len(p)
> 2
>>>> p.encode('utf-16').decode('utf-16')
> '𐀀'
>>>> len(_)
> 1

Hi Tom,

welcome to Python land :-) Here's some more background information
on how Python's Unicode implementation works:

You need to differentiate between Unicode code points stored in
Unicode objects and ones encoded in transfer formats by codecs.

We generally do allow lone surrogates, unassigned code
points, lone combining code points, etc. in Unicode objects
since Python needs to be able to work on all Unicode code points
and build strings with them.

The transfer format codecs do try to combine surrogates
on decoding data on UCS4 builds. On UCS2 builds they create
surrogate pairs as necessary. On output, those pairs will again
be joined to get round-trip safety.

It helps if you think of Python's Unicode objects using UCS2
and UCS4 instead of UTF-16/32. Python does try to make working
with UCS2 easy and in many cases behaves as if it were using
UTF-16 internally, but there are, of course, limits to this. In
practice, you only rarely get to see any of these special cases,
since non-BMP code points are usually not found in everyday
use. If they do become a problem for you, you have the option
of switching to a UCS4 build of Python.

You also have to be aware of the fact that Python started
Unicode in 1999/2000 with Unicode 2.0/3.0, so it uses the
terminology of those versions, some of which has changed in
more recent versions of Unicode.

For more background information, you might want take a look
at this talk from 2002:

http://www.egenix.com/library/presentations/#PythonAndUnicode

Related to the other tickets you opened You'll also find that
collation and compression was already on the plate back then,
but since no one step forward, it wasn't implemented.

Cheers,
-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

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History
Date User Action Args
2011-08-15 09:04:59lemburgsetrecipients: + lemburg, terry.reedy, pitrou, jkloth, ezio.melotti, mrabarnett, Arfrever, r.david.murray, tchrist
2011-08-15 09:04:58lemburglinkissue12729 messages
2011-08-15 09:04:58lemburgcreate