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Title: Inconsistent complex behavior with (-1j)
Type: enhancement Stage: resolved
Components: Documentation Versions: Python 3.8
Status: closed Resolution: duplicate
Dependencies: Superseder: Complex number representation round-trip doesn't work with signed zero values
View: 17336
Assigned To: docs@python Nosy List: docs@python, josh.r, mark.dickinson, rhettinger, rushilu, serhiy.storchaka, steven.daprano, terry.reedy, tim.peters
Priority: normal Keywords: patch

Created on 2020-04-13 00:03 by rushilu, last changed 2022-04-11 14:59 by admin. This issue is now closed.

Pull Requests
URL Status Linked Edit
PR 19498 closed mark.dickinson, 2020-04-13 10:11
PR 19593 open serhiy.storchaka, 2020-04-19 08:18
Messages (15)
msg366276 - (view) Author: Rushil Udani (rushilu) Date: 2020-04-13 00:03
In a Python REPL:

>>> -1j
>>> (-1j)
>>> 0-1j
>>> -0-1j

This is clearly inconsistent behavior! -1j and (-1j) should report as -1j, as the other two do.
msg366278 - (view) Author: Josh Rosenberg (josh.r) * (Python triager) Date: 2020-04-13 00:38
The final entry is identical to the second to last, because ints have no concept of -0. If you used a float literal, it would match the first two:

>>> -0.-1j

I suspect the behavior here is due to -1j not actually being a literal on its own; it's interpreted as the negation of 1j, where 1j is actually 0.0+1.0j, and negating it flips the sign on both the real and imaginary component.

From what I can read of the grammar rules, this is expected; the negation isn't ever part of the literal (minus signs aren't part of the grammar aside from exponents in scientific notation).

If this is a bug, it's a bug in the grammar. I suspect the correct solution here is to include the real part explicitly, as 0.0-1j works just fine.
msg366280 - (view) Author: Raymond Hettinger (rhettinger) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-04-13 01:46
The docs for complex literals¹ could be improved to show that:

    -1j is interpreted as -complex(0.0, 1.0)
    giving a real component of -0.0
    and an imaginary component of -1.0

and that:

   0-1j  is interpreted as 0.0-complex(0.0, 1.0)
    giving a real component of 0.0
    and an imaginary component of -1.0

It is unfortunate the repr for complex numbers uses integers at all.  That hides what is going on.

msg366283 - (view) Author: Steven D'Aprano (steven.daprano) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-04-13 03:22
Would we be willing to consider an enhancement to have complex numbers always display using float format rather than ints?

    1+1j --> 1.0+1.0j

We could still suppress an unsigned real zero:

    1j --> 1.0j

but negative zero would show:

    -(1j) --> -0.0-1.0j

I daresay this would break some doctests (CC'ing Tim, as he is a heavy user of doctests) but perhaps it would be worthwhile.

Aside from the backwards-compatibility issue, going against this suggestion we have the popular Texas Instruments Nspire calculator, which shows complex numbers as ints when possible.

On the other hand, the imaginary unit is shown as the symbolic constant i with no coefficient, and it also shows complex numbers with an explicit multiplication sign: 2⋅i rather than 2i.

Similarly, Julia shows complex numbers with integer coefficients when possible:
msg366287 - (view) Author: Serhiy Storchaka (serhiy.storchaka) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-04-13 08:48
It is a known issue, but I have no references to previous discussions. Outputting numbers with decimal point will not help in case of complex(-0.0, 1.0). Maybe the only way to solve this problem is to implement special Imaginary type (as a subclass of complex).
msg366289 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-04-13 09:29
See also #25839, #22548; there's lot of discussion of the core issue on those tickets. As Serhiy says, the only reasonable "true" fix would be to have 1j be a genuine imaginary literal, but that's a lot of work and potential disruption (not just to core Python, but to 3rd party libraries that care about complex numbers) for not a lot of gain.

A documentation improvement as suggested by Raymond sounds good.

I'm not keen on messing with the complex __repr__ again, but if we did, I'd propose not only representing real and imaginary parts in a way that's consistent with floats (so with both real and imaginary parts having either decimal points or exponents), but also showing _both_ the real and imaginary parts in all complex numbers. That is:

    >>> 1j
    0.0 + 1.0j

Or if we're willing to accept more backwards compatibility breakage, there's a case for having the __repr__ (but not the __str__) of a complex number take the form

    >>> 1j
    complex(0.0, 1.0)

since this the only way that allows easy round-tripping. Otherwise you still have this problem:

    >>> complex(-0.0, 1.0)
    >>> -0 + 1j

BTW, I still dislike the parentheses around the current complex repr.

Let's keep this issue open for potential documentation improvements. If we want to change the repr of complex, let's open another issue for that.
msg366293 - (view) Author: Serhiy Storchaka (serhiy.storchaka) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-04-13 09:49
The Imaginary type could help to solve other "gotchas". For example, in Python

>>> complex(0, float('inf')) * 1

But in C++ you will get the real component 0, because multiplication of complex and real numbers is component wise.

With the Imaginary type we could get that 1j * x == complex(0, x) for all float x, including infinity and NaN.

Returning to the repr, the other way to correctly represent the repr of complex(-0.0, 1.0) is writing it as "-(0.0-1j)", but it looks unnatural to me.
msg366294 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-04-13 10:04
> The Imaginary type could help to solve other "gotchas".

Yes, it's an attractive proposition from many angles: e.g., multiplying by 1j could do the correct quarter-turn rotation in the complex plane, keeping all signs correct, so that multiplying a complex number z by 1j 4 times exactly recovers z, regardless of nans, infinities and signed zeros.

C99's specification of (optional) imaginary types was supposed to solve exactly this problem, but it doesn't look as though it received widespread adoption, and I suspect it would have difficult getting traction in Python world, too.

I'll have a PR with a documentation update shortly.
msg366298 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-04-13 10:40
Another related issue is #23229, where Guido says (in msg233963):

> BTW I don't want repr() of a complex number to use the
> complex(..., ...) notation -- it's too verbose.
msg366733 - (view) Author: Raymond Hettinger (rhettinger) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-04-18 18:35
Since integers don't have signed zeros, the use of integers in the complex repr is a little weird:

>>> (-0-1j)         # The unary minus in the repr has no effect.
>>> (0-1j)
msg366764 - (view) Author: Serhiy Storchaka (serhiy.storchaka) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-04-19 08:26
I tried to make repr of floats producing a string which rounds up with eval() (see PR 19593).

>>> complex(0.0, 1.0)
>>> complex(0.0, -1.0)
>>> complex(-0.0, 1.0)
>>> complex(-0.0, -1.0)
>>> complex(1.0, 0.0)
>>> complex(-1.0, 0.0)
>>> complex(1.0, -0.0)
>>> complex(-1.0, -0.0)

The largest problem is with complex(-0.0, 0.0) and complex(-0.0, 0.0). The only forms which evaluate to these numbers are:

>>> complex(-0.0, 0.0)
>>> complex(0.0, -0.0)

But it conflicts with the constructor:

>>> complex('(-0.0-0j)')
msg366773 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-04-19 09:55
> I tried to make repr of floats producing a string which rounds up with eval()

We've looked at this before. There just isn't any sane and easy way to do this, except for changing the repr to be "complex(real, imag)", which is the solution that I favour.

And this seems like a non-starter to me:

    >>> complex(0.0, -0.0)

This is a case where the cure is worse than the disease.

We should also not change the repr lightly: the last time it was changed, it caused disruption at least for Cython, and probably for NumPy too. As a corollary, if we _do_ change it, we should make sure we get it right so that we're changing it to something we're not going to want to change again in 5 years' time. And I suspect that if we don't solve the underlying roundtrip problem, then this is going to come up again.

I'm +1 on changing the repr to "complex(..., ...)", +0 on modifying it to always include both real and imaginary parts _and_ format those parts as though they're floats; -1 on other changes.
msg367553 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-04-28 18:40
Closing this. Please open a separate issue for changing the complex repr if that's the way that you want to go.
msg367721 - (view) Author: Terry J. Reedy (terry.reedy) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-04-30 00:22
After reading through the comments, I don't think we should change repr(complex) unless there is computational issue, such as eval(repr(z) != z.  Raymond, I agree with your overlooked doc tweek.  If you submit a PR, you can ask me to review.
msg374874 - (view) Author: Mark Dickinson (mark.dickinson) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-08-05 11:14
Updating resolution to "duplicate", in an effort to keep discussion in a single place.
Date User Action Args
2022-04-11 14:59:29adminsetgithub: 84450
2020-08-05 11:14:17mark.dickinsonsetsuperseder: Complex number representation round-trip doesn't work with signed zero values
resolution: not a bug -> duplicate
messages: + msg374874
2020-04-30 00:22:26terry.reedysetnosy: + terry.reedy
messages: + msg367721
2020-04-28 18:40:06mark.dickinsonsetstatus: open -> closed
resolution: not a bug
messages: + msg367553

stage: patch review -> resolved
2020-04-19 09:55:39mark.dickinsonsetmessages: + msg366773
2020-04-19 08:26:52serhiy.storchakasetmessages: + msg366764
2020-04-19 08:18:40serhiy.storchakasetpull_requests: + pull_request18928
2020-04-18 18:35:11rhettingersetmessages: + msg366733
2020-04-13 10:40:14mark.dickinsonsetmessages: + msg366298
2020-04-13 10:11:59mark.dickinsonsetkeywords: + patch
stage: patch review
pull_requests: + pull_request18849
2020-04-13 10:04:58mark.dickinsonsetmessages: + msg366294
2020-04-13 09:49:20serhiy.storchakasetmessages: + msg366293
2020-04-13 09:29:58mark.dickinsonsetnosy: + docs@python
messages: + msg366289

assignee: docs@python
components: + Documentation, - Interpreter Core
type: behavior -> enhancement
2020-04-13 08:48:55serhiy.storchakasetnosy: + serhiy.storchaka
messages: + msg366287
2020-04-13 03:22:41steven.dapranosetnosy: + steven.daprano, tim.peters
messages: + msg366283
2020-04-13 01:46:55rhettingersetnosy: + rhettinger
messages: + msg366280
2020-04-13 01:23:10rhettingersetnosy: + mark.dickinson
2020-04-13 00:38:23josh.rsetnosy: + josh.r
messages: + msg366278
2020-04-13 00:03:28rushilucreate