Author p-ganssle
Recipients brett.cannon, christian.heimes, doko, dstufft, eric.araujo, jaraco, lukasz.langa, ncoghlan, ned.deily, p-ganssle, pablogsal, paul.moore, steve.dower, yan12125
Date 2020-07-14.18:03:33
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Message-id <1594749813.94.0.182394980805.issue41282@roundup.psfhosted.org>
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> I don't think it's a good idea to replace bad habits from distutils with bad habits in setuptools._distutils.  And this is exactly what you get with pointing directly to setuptools.

These are two different questions. We're not asking people to migrate to `setuptools._distutils` (a private module which may not continue to exist in that location), `setuptools` is *adopting* `distutils`, such that `distutils` is a project provided by `pip install distutils` (mind you, this is happening independent of what the standard library does — the only question is whether `import distutils` continues to work if you don't have `setuptools` installed).

> While splitting out distutils to a separate package in a Linux distro, I found some creative usages at runtime of a package (see my lightning talk at the language summit 2018, and [1]).  From my point of view, CPython should provide documentation how to forward-port these issues without using setuptools._distutils.

At this point, the extent of CPython's documentation on this should probably be, "We are removing `distutils` and moving it into the `setuptools` namespace. In future versions, you will need to install `setuptools` to import the `distutils` package." `setuptools` should almost certainly deprecate `distutils` and probably remove large swathes of it in the process, but that's probably on a case-by-case basis, and it's a separate issue from what needs to happen in CPython.

> Currently setuptools only has one component (pkg_resources, [2]) which is used at runtime.  I dislike it if more than that is used at runtime of a package.

I don't think anyone is planning to recommend the use of *any* `setuptools`-provided packages at runtime, including `pkg_resources`. This move is actually a good one from that point of view, because it will require that projects using `distutils` declare a *runtime* dependency on `setuptools`, which will, hopefully, raise some eyebrows. Better than the current situation, where these dependencies are totally undeclared (though probably worse than if `setuptools`, `pkg_resources` and `distutils` were all separate PyPI packages).
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Date User Action Args
2020-07-14 18:03:33p-gansslesetrecipients: + p-ganssle, brett.cannon, doko, paul.moore, jaraco, ncoghlan, christian.heimes, ned.deily, eric.araujo, lukasz.langa, steve.dower, dstufft, yan12125, pablogsal
2020-07-14 18:03:33p-gansslesetmessageid: <1594749813.94.0.182394980805.issue41282@roundup.psfhosted.org>
2020-07-14 18:03:33p-gansslelinkissue41282 messages
2020-07-14 18:03:33p-gansslecreate