Right, I mostly borrowed the issue as a public channel that could reach folks already invested in the problem space, without needing to tidy things up sufficiently to make them coherent for a more general audience on python-dev or python-ideas.

As Steve says, we really need some high bandwidth discussions to help define what we think "good" looks like. I have a pretty solid idea of what *I* think "good" looks like, but that doesn't mean that aligns with what others think.

If we can get to a point where Steve, Slavek, Barry, Matthias and I can agree on a general outline of how we'd like platform integration to work, and whatever we propose sounds plausible to the Mac OS X experts as well, we'll be in a much better position to present a coherent story both to end users *and* to our fellow developers :)