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Better identify Windows installer as installer only, not runner #85120

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terryjreedy opened this issue Jun 11, 2020 · 12 comments
Closed

Better identify Windows installer as installer only, not runner #85120

terryjreedy opened this issue Jun 11, 2020 · 12 comments
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3.8 only security fixes 3.9 only security fixes 3.10 only security fixes OS-windows

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@terryjreedy
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BPO 40948
Nosy @terryjreedy, @pfmoore, @mwichmann, @tjguk, @ned-deily, @zware, @zooba, @miss-islington
PRs
  • bpo-41412 and bpo-40948: Windows installer updates #21656
  • [3.9] bpo-41412 and bpo-40948: Windows installer updates (GH-21656) #21661
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    Files
  • postinstall.png
    		•

    Note: these values reflect the state of the issue at the time it was migrated and might not reflect the current state.

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    GitHub fields:

    assignee = None
closed_at = <Date 2020-07-28.16:54:02.443>
created_at = <Date 2020-06-11.12:04:15.388>
labels = ['3.10', '3.8', '3.9', 'OS-windows']
title = 'Better identify Windows installer as installer only, not runner'
updated_at = <Date 2020-07-28.16:54:02.443>
user = 'https://github.com/terryjreedy'

    bugs.python.org fields:

    activity = <Date 2020-07-28.16:54:02.443>
actor = 'steve.dower'
assignee = 'none'
closed = True
closed_date = <Date 2020-07-28.16:54:02.443>
closer = 'steve.dower'
components = ['Windows']
creation = <Date 2020-06-11.12:04:15.388>
creator = 'terry.reedy'
dependencies = []
files = ['49343']
hgrepos = []
issue_num = 40948
keywords = ['patch']
message_count = 12.0
messages = ['371263', '371302', '371326', '371457', '371462', '371465', '374484', '374487', '374490', '374491', '374503', '374505']
nosy_count = 8.0
nosy_names = ['terry.reedy', 'paul.moore', 'mwichmann', 'tim.golden', 'ned.deily', 'zach.ware', 'steve.dower', 'miss-islington']
pr_nums = ['21656', '21661']
priority = 'normal'
resolution = 'fixed'
stage = 'resolved'
status = 'closed'
superseder = None
type = None
url = 'https://bugs.python.org/issue40948'
versions = ['Python 3.8', 'Python 3.9', 'Python 3.10']
    @terryjreedy
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    Some beginners on Windows think that python-3.8.3-amd64.exe, for instance, is for running python-3.8.3, leading to repeated and now tiresome questions on python-list and probably elsewhere. The latest example is "repair modify uninstall" with the core complaint that "after downloading and trying to launch it keeps saying repair modify uninstall". (Actually, 'modify' comes first.)

    In response, Grant Edwards suggested adding run instructions to the initial screen and asked a "Is the file name not clear that it's an installer?"

    For the naive, the answer, as is traditional, is 'no'. How about adding 'setup' or 'install', as I have seen occasionally.
    python-3.8.3-amd64-setup.exe

    The initial screen is different according to whether an installed binary is absent or present. For the latter, add something like

    Python 3.8.3 {n} bit is installed for {who}.
    To run it, {directions}
    To change it, click one of the buttons below.

    An optional add-on would be a button to open the doc page on using python on Windows.

    (I an not suggesting a button to actually run python.exe from the installer. Users should really learn how to start it properly according to platform and python-specific conventions and their particular needs.)

    Does the final screen after installation say anything about running the new install? (I cannot remember.)

    Ned: I don't think that this issue afficts Mac newbies. Perhaps python-xyz.pkg is more clearly not for running. But something you might watch for.

    @terryjreedy terryjreedy added 3.8 only security fixes 3.9 only security fixes 3.10 only security fixes OS-windows labels Jun 11, 2020
    @zooba
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    zooba commented Jun 11, 2020

    The current "using" doc page is way too in-depth, but I'm actually okay with the idea of having a "Did you mean to launch Python? Press 'Start' and type 'Python' to find it" message on the Modify page of the installer.

    Perhaps the people hitting this problem would read the final page of the installer, but I suspect they're just like everyone else and don't read instructions until just-in-time. So if they're reaching the Modify page, that's the place to put them.

    @terryjreedy
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    Simple is fine. How about

    If you want to run Python, press Start and find 'Python 3.x' under 'P', or enter 'python' in the "Search for anything" box on the taskbar.

    If you don't have the time right now, where should this go?

    @mwichmann
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    mwichmann mannequin commented Jun 13, 2020

    "on python-list and probably elsewhere"... I can confirm these questions get mailed to webmaster@python.org :) A couple of comments since I see these fairly frequently:

    The "using" doc page may have too much information for beginner tastes, but at least it answers a lot of questions. but it's hard to find... it would be nice if the OS-specific installation page actually pointed to it - or to a more concise alternative if that's preferred. Applies to Mac as well, as most people who install on Mac seem to have some surprise with it not launching the way they expect.

    Proposed text: "If you want to run Python, press Start and find 'Python 3.x' under 'P', or enter 'python' in the "Search for anything" box on the taskbar." - why not mention the Python Launcher here? Isn't that the preferred approach now for the pydotorg installer?

    @terryjreedy
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    Mats, thank you for chiming in. py.exe is preferred *if* one starts python from a command line. Some beginners have never seen one or know what it is. This is most likely to be true of people who don't know 'installer' from 'launcher'. The installer is usually launched from a browswer or possibly Explorer, not a console.

    That said, I would not mind also linking to whatever page, but I agree now with Steve about starting with something minimal that works, at least if the default 'install icons' was left checked.

    @mwichmann
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    mwichmann mannequin commented Jun 13, 2020

    py.exe is preferred *if* one starts python from a command line.

    I'm not a habitual Windows user (a certain project is making me spend way more time there than usual), but if I start typing python to a Windows search, after the first two letters the launcher is usually the highlighted match ("Best match" it says on Win10), so it's not *just* from the command line.

    @zooba
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    zooba commented Jul 28, 2020

    Assuming it fits, I'm going to update the 3.9+ post-install message to this (assume the HTML renders normally). Any comments?

    New to Python? Start with the <a href="https://docs.python.org/[ShortVersion]/tutorial/index.html"&gt;online tutorial</a> and <a href="https://docs.python.org/[ShortVersion]/index.html"&gt;documentation&lt;/a>.

    At your terminal, type "py" to launch Python, or search for Python in your Start menu.

    See <a href="https://docs.python.org/[ShortVersion]/whatsnew/[ShortVersion].html"&gt;what's new</a> in this release.

    Special thanks to Mark Hammond, without whose years of freely shared Windows expertise, Python for Windows would still be Python for DOS.

    @zooba
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    zooba commented Jul 28, 2020

    Added a screenshot, after tweaking the spacing just a little.

    @mwichmann
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    mwichmann mannequin commented Jul 28, 2020

    I still think there ought to be some pointer to https://docs.python.org/3/using/windows.html in there.

    @zooba
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    zooba commented Jul 28, 2020

    I changed the middle paragraph to this:

    See <a href="https://docs.python.org/[ShortVersion]/whatsnew/[ShortVersion].html"&gt;what's new</a> in this release, or find more info about <a href="https://docs.python.org/[ShortVersion]/using/windows.html"&gt;using Python on Windows</a>.

    @zooba
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    zooba commented Jul 28, 2020

    New changeset 37a06cb by Steve Dower in branch 'master':
    bpo-41412 and bpo-40948: Windows installer updates (GH-21656)
    37a06cb

    @miss-islington
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    New changeset 95cc37f by Miss Islington (bot) in branch '3.9':
    bpo-41412 and bpo-40948: Windows installer updates (GH-21656)
    95cc37f

    @zooba zooba closed this as completed Jul 28, 2020
    @zooba zooba closed this as completed Jul 28, 2020
    @ezio-melotti ezio-melotti transferred this issue from another repository Apr 10, 2022
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