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Document default numeric string formats #83597

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kpinc mannequin opened this issue Jan 22, 2020 · 10 comments
Closed

Document default numeric string formats #83597

kpinc mannequin opened this issue Jan 22, 2020 · 10 comments
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3.8 only security fixes 3.9 only security fixes 3.10 only security fixes docs Documentation in the Doc dir

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@kpinc
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kpinc mannequin commented Jan 22, 2020

BPO 39416
Nosy @ericvsmith, @merwok, @kpinc, @miss-islington
PRs
  • bpo-39416: Document some restrictions on the default string representations of numeric classes #18111
  • [3.9] bpo-39416: Document some restrictions on the default string representations of numeric classes (GH-18111) #22860
  • [3.8] bpo-39416: Document some restrictions on the default string representations of numeric classes (GH-18111) #22861
  • Fix bpo-39416: Change "Numeric" to lower case; an english word, not a class name #22867
  • [3.9] Fix bpo-39416: Change "Numeric" to lower case; an english word, not a class name (GH-22867) #22868
  • [3.8] bpo-39416: change word case to not imply ABC (GH-22867) (GH-22869) #22869
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    Note: these values reflect the state of the issue at the time it was migrated and might not reflect the current state.

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    GitHub fields:

    assignee = None
closed_at = <Date 2020-10-21.18:57:12.011>
created_at = <Date 2020-01-22.02:35:29.555>
labels = ['3.8', '3.9', '3.10', 'docs']
title = 'Document default numeric string formats'
updated_at = <Date 2020-12-16.03:18:24.940>
user = 'https://github.com/kpinc'

    bugs.python.org fields:

    activity = <Date 2020-12-16.03:18:24.940>
actor = 'eric.araujo'
assignee = 'docs@python'
closed = True
closed_date = <Date 2020-10-21.18:57:12.011>
closer = 'eric.araujo'
components = ['Documentation']
creation = <Date 2020-01-22.02:35:29.555>
creator = 'kop'
dependencies = []
files = []
hgrepos = []
issue_num = 39416
keywords = ['patch']
message_count = 10.0
messages = ['360442', '360449', '360465', '379224', '379232', '379233', '379234', '379249', '379252', '383115']
nosy_count = 5.0
nosy_names = ['eric.smith', 'eric.araujo', 'docs@python', 'kop', 'miss-islington']
pr_nums = ['18111', '22860', '22861', '22867', '22868', '22869']
priority = 'normal'
resolution = 'fixed'
stage = 'resolved'
status = 'closed'
superseder = None
type = None
url = 'https://bugs.python.org/issue39416'
versions = ['Python 3.8', 'Python 3.9', 'Python 3.10']
    @kpinc
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    kpinc mannequin commented Jan 22, 2020

    Seems sane to put _some_ restrictions on the string representations of the Numeric classes. This would be a change to the Python language
    specification.

    Suggestions made in a pull request.

    See the email thread:
    Subject: Documenting Python's float.__str__()
    https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/thread/FV22TKT3S2Q3P7PNN6MCXI6IX3HRRNAL/

    @kpinc kpinc mannequin assigned docspython Jan 22, 2020
    @kpinc kpinc mannequin added the docs Documentation in the Doc dir label Jan 22, 2020
    @kpinc kpinc mannequin assigned docspython Jan 22, 2020
    @kpinc kpinc mannequin added the docs Documentation in the Doc dir label Jan 22, 2020
    @ericvsmith
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    Is the lack of this documentation causing some confusion somewhere? This isn't rhetorical, I'm genuinely curious what problem you're trying to solve.

    Is there any mainstream programming language where the basics of what you've laid out aren't true? It all seems pretty obvious to me. For example, I can't see anyone looking at this and saying "Ah, base 10. That's why it's producing the output I'm seeing."

    @kpinc
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    kpinc mannequin commented Jan 22, 2020

    On Wed, 22 Jan 2020 06:09:41 +0000
    "Eric V. Smith" <report@bugs.python.org> wrote:

    Eric V. Smith <eric@trueblade.com> added the comment:

    Is the lack of this documentation causing some confusion somewhere?
    This isn't rhetorical, I'm genuinely curious what problem you're
    trying to solve.

    I'd say no, there's no real confusion anywhere.

    This started with a search for documentation on Python's
    default string representation for float. This accidentally
    wound up on the python-dev mailing list and became a
    more general discussion during which I suggested that
    some fundamentals are clear. This is pretty much just
    a follow-up to that discussion.

    Is there any mainstream programming language where the basics of what
    you've laid out aren't true? It all seems pretty obvious to me. For
    example, I can't see anyone looking at this and saying "Ah, base 10.
    That's why it's producing the output I'm seeing."

    Well, I just got done looking at YAML which has a lot of base-related
    syntax including base 60. :)

    The problem that would be solved is that it's easy to rely
    on the default Numeric output formats. Most output probably
    does not go through a formatter, although this may change
    now that f-strings are so easy. Anyway, this would guarantee
    "normal output" for numbers, even when switching between
    Python implementations.

    Likewise, immutability of value when round-tripping through a
    string is also obvious. But is still an important property.

    So if these properties are important then include them in the spec.
    That's what specs are for. (I could probably find some non-mainstream
    languages (scheme perhaps) that have specs which include
    similar documentation. You pretty have to have a formatter
    in compiled languages, so those won't specify a default.
    Anyway, it shouldn't matter what other language specs do.)

    I understand if nobody sees this as a real problem. And
    I don't want to stand up as a big proponent. I'll
    point out the argument here and let others decide.

    Regards,

    Karl <kop@karlpinc.com>
    Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
    -- Robert A. Heinlein

    @miss-islington
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    New changeset c60394c by kpinc in branch 'master':
    bpo-39416: Document some restrictions on the default string representations of numeric classes (GH-18111)
    c60394c

    @miss-islington
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    New changeset ec62b47 by Miss Skeleton (bot) in branch '3.9':
    [3.9] bpo-39416: Document some restrictions on the default string representations of numeric classes (GH-18111) (GH-22860)
    ec62b47

    @miss-islington
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    New changeset 89fac4c by Miss Skeleton (bot) in branch '3.8':
    [3.8] bpo-39416: Document some restrictions on the default string representations of numeric classes (GH-18111) (GH-22861)
    89fac4c

    @merwok
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    merwok commented Oct 21, 2020

    Thanks for the patch!

    @merwok merwok added 3.8 only security fixes 3.9 only security fixes 3.10 only security fixes labels Oct 21, 2020
    @merwok merwok closed this as completed Oct 21, 2020
    @merwok merwok added 3.8 only security fixes 3.9 only security fixes 3.10 only security fixes labels Oct 21, 2020
    @merwok merwok closed this as completed Oct 21, 2020
    @miss-islington
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    New changeset f8b1ccd by kpinc in branch 'master':
    Fix bpo-39416: Change "Numeric" to lower case; an english word, not a class name (GH-22867)
    f8b1ccd

    @miss-islington
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    New changeset 224ed37 by Miss Skeleton (bot) in branch '3.9':
    Fix bpo-39416: Change "Numeric" to lower case; an english word, not a class name (GH-22867)
    224ed37

    @merwok
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    merwok commented Dec 16, 2020

    New changeset aedc94b by Miss Islington (bot) in branch '3.8':
    [3.8] bpo-39416: change word case to not imply ABC (GH-22867) (GH-22869)
    aedc94b

    @ezio-melotti ezio-melotti transferred this issue from another repository Apr 10, 2022
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