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IDLE: Remove tear-off menu feature #58092

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mcgrete mannequin opened this issue Jan 26, 2012 · 16 comments
Closed

IDLE: Remove tear-off menu feature #58092

mcgrete mannequin opened this issue Jan 26, 2012 · 16 comments
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@terryjreedy
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topic-IDLE type-feature A feature request or enhancement

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@mcgrete
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mcgrete mannequin commented Jan 26, 2012

BPO 13884
Nosy @terryjreedy, @taleinat, @ned-deily, @ezio-melotti, @serwy, @roseman, @rovitotv, @serhiy-storchaka
Files
  • IDLE2.6.5_RecentFilesUndocked.png: screen capture
  • issue13884.patch
  • tearoff.patch: Remove tearoff menus
  • tearoff27.patch: Remove tearoff menus, 2.7 branch
    		•

    Note: these values reflect the state of the issue at the time it was migrated and might not reflect the current state.

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    GitHub fields:

    assignee = 'https://github.com/terryjreedy'
closed_at = <Date 2015-07-30.20:58:05.192>
created_at = <Date 2012-01-26.23:41:03.922>
labels = ['expert-IDLE', 'type-feature']
title = 'IDLE: Remove tear-off menu feature'
updated_at = <Date 2015-07-30.21:11:24.695>
user = 'https://bugs.python.org/mcgrete'

    bugs.python.org fields:

    activity = <Date 2015-07-30.21:11:24.695>
actor = 'terry.reedy'
assignee = 'terry.reedy'
closed = True
closed_date = <Date 2015-07-30.20:58:05.192>
closer = 'terry.reedy'
components = ['IDLE']
creation = <Date 2012-01-26.23:41:03.922>
creator = 'mcgrete'
dependencies = []
files = ['24333', '24352', '40058', '40059']
hgrepos = []
issue_num = 13884
keywords = ['patch']
message_count = 16.0
messages = ['152050', '152054', '152067', '152192', '173284', '173291', '173293', '173300', '230381', '247611', '247612', '247649', '247661', '247676', '247694', '247697']
nosy_count = 10.0
nosy_names = ['terry.reedy', 'taleinat', 'ned.deily', 'ezio.melotti', 'roger.serwy', 'markroseman', 'Todd.Rovito', 'python-dev', 'mcgrete', 'serhiy.storchaka']
pr_nums = []
priority = 'normal'
resolution = 'fixed'
stage = 'resolved'
status = 'closed'
superseder = None
type = 'enhancement'
url = 'https://bugs.python.org/issue13884'
versions = ['Python 2.7', 'Python 3.4', 'Python 3.5', 'Python 3.6']
    @mcgrete
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    mcgrete mannequin commented Jan 26, 2012

    When selecting from menu:
    File --> Recent Files
    the 'Recent Files' dropdown list undocks from the IDLE gui / File dropdown list. Even after selecting a past file, it remains open until closed manually.

    Ubuntu LUCID
    amd64
    IDLE 2.6.5
    TK version 8.5
    All installed using Ubuntu supported PPA (Synaptic)

    After closing 'Recent Files' subwindow, problem no longer persists until IDLE is terminated and restarted.

    @mcgrete mcgrete mannequin added the topic-IDLE label Jan 26, 2012
    @ezio-melotti
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    Could you try with IDLE 2.7/3.2?

    @terryjreedy
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    IDLE has tear-off menus. From Help/IDLE Help:
    "Click on the dotted line at the top of a menu to "tear it off":
    a separate window containing the menu is created."
    This is a feature, not a bug.

    On 3.2.2, Win7, the Recent Files sub-menu cannot be torn off unless and until the File menu is torn off.

    @serwy
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    serwy mannequin commented Jan 28, 2012

    Should tear-off menus still be a feature? This relates to the bpo-13504 meta-issue, in particular entry "4) ANNOYANCE: Get rid of the detachable menus feature.."

    Attached is patch against 3.3a0 to disable tear-off menus. (It also makes modifications to Mac-specific code, but I can't test it since I don't have a Mac.)

    @terryjreedy terryjreedy changed the title IDLE 2.6.5 Recent Files undocks IDLE: Remove tear-off menu feature Oct 18, 2012
    @terryjreedy terryjreedy added the type-feature A feature request or enhancement label Oct 18, 2012
    @terryjreedy
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    I wonder if anyone uses this feature and would miss it if gone. Since it is a simple matter of passing 'tearoff=0/1' on menu creation, perhaps it should be a configuration feature.

    @rovitotv
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    rovitotv mannequin commented Oct 18, 2012

    Terry,
    I would not miss the feature at all this is very old school Unix like and most people find it confusing. At my job I tend to provide Python support to my co-workers and have had many questions about it. In addition I think bpo-13504 meta issue provides even more evidence that removing the tear off menus would be a good thing. Something to consider with IDLE is it is often the first thing a user sees when using Python and first impressions count in most circumstances. IDLE could be much improved and Roger Serwy has a good start on improvements with his IdleX project. Thanks for the review and I for one would appreciate this patch getting committed.

    @serhiy-storchaka
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    Yes, please, make it a configuration feature (off by default). Tear-off menus useful for large and deeply nested menus. Do not forget about people with disabilities.

    @ned-deily
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    Keep in mind that tear-off menus are not supported on IDLE on OS X when using Aqua Tk (either Carbon or Cocoa), the standard these days. That's primarily because Aqua Tk uses native OS X menu bars which appear once at the top of the desktop, not in each window. There are no dotted line menu bars there. The desktop menu bar menu items change to reflect which window currently has keyboard focus.

    @ezio-melotti
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    I haven't seen any other program using it, so I wouldn't mind if they were removed. People with disabilities probably have better ways to deal with menus, but if adding the option is trivial it's probably better to add it.

    @roseman
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    roseman mannequin commented Jul 29, 2015

    As indicated in prior comments, the tearoff menus are strictly a holdover from ancient Motif, and are no longer found in current user interfaces on any platform. Because of that, I would strongly support deleting them altogether, rather than making available a configuration option.

    I've updated Roger's patch for current 3.x tip (and also extended it to remove the reference to tearoff menus from the help file).

    @roseman
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    roseman mannequin commented Jul 29, 2015

    Same changes for 2.7 branch

    @terryjreedy
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    In your online tutorial, your recommend
    root.option_add('*tearOff', FALSE)
    Why not here, and be covered everywhere, and in the future?
    Or is this needed for each Toplevel?

    @taleinat
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    +1 for removal.

    @roseman
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    roseman mannequin commented Jul 30, 2015

    Doing it via the option database vs. on each menu would be my preferred approach. The option database is global, not per toplevel, so would cover everything. Only 'downside' is the whole its-not-an-application-its-a-library thing, though in the highly unlikely case someone was actually using idlelib this way, I'd consider setting that option a public service.

    There's no harm doing it the other way (and I was being polite since the previous patch was done that way), but it does very marginally increase maintainability difficulties (remembering to keep the option and add it to any future menus).

    Either way - please let's just make this change! :-)

    @python-dev
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    python-dev mannequin commented Jul 30, 2015

    New changeset bead9330438c by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '2.7':
    Issue bpo-13884: Idle: Remove tearoff lines from menus. Patch by Roger Serwy.
    https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/bead9330438c

    New changeset 6eb4441ed14b by Terry Jan Reedy in branch '3.4':
    Issue bpo-13884: Idle: Remove tearoff lines from menus. Patch by Roger Serwy.
    https://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/6eb4441ed14b

    @terryjreedy
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    I decided the accessibility argument does not apply because a) there is only one nested menu, Recent files b) that menu can be very wide and I intend to make it longer, making it a bad candidate for staying on the screen, and c) when torn off, it did not seem accessible from the keyboard.

    I decided to keep the patch as is, with tearoff disabled at the point of submenu creation. Setting the option on root is no easier when there are multiple Tk() calls. There may be more than one for normal Idle execution. There are many for testing, and we want the option set for tests.

    @terryjreedy terryjreedy self-assigned this Jul 30, 2015
    @ezio-melotti ezio-melotti transferred this issue from another repository Apr 10, 2022
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