classification
Title: Make IDLE doc more visible, mention in main python docs page
Type: enhancement Stage: needs patch
Components: Documentation, IDLE Versions: Python 3.10, Python 3.9, Python 3.8, Python 3.7
process
Status: open Resolution:
Dependencies: Superseder:
Assigned To: docs@python Nosy List: amaajemyfren, docs@python, phr, taleinat, terry.reedy
Priority: normal Keywords:

Created on 2020-05-22 20:27 by phr, last changed 2020-05-23 15:58 by amaajemyfren.

Files
File name Uploaded Description Edit
docs.python.org.png amaajemyfren, 2020-05-23 15:58
Messages (7)
msg369640 - (view) Author: paul rubin (phr) Date: 2020-05-22 20:27
The IDLE documentation is in https://docs.python.org/3/library/idle.html which is not where I'd have thought to look for it, since I think of IDLE as an application rather than a library.  So I looked for it on the main docs page, docs.python.org, and didn't find it there.  I ended up finding it by web search.  

I guess its current location is reasonable, but maybe a link to it could be included in docs.python.org's main page left side navigation panel, or IDLE could simply be mentioned in the entry for library documentation.
msg369680 - (view) Author: Terry J. Reedy (terry.reedy) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-05-23 01:14
I agree that finding the online doc is slight pain.  It is not listed in the Modules index because idlelib, not IDLE, is the stdlib module, and does not have a doc page.  I may add one or, if possible, make the page serve as one, as part of this issue.  'IDLE' *is* in the Index, and the first link is the correct one.

I don't control and would not unilaterally change the main page.  I am hesitant because I expect that there are people who would think it unfair or deceptive to especially promote IDLE this way versus other stdlib packages and non-stdlib IDEs and editors.  I might subscribe to and post on python-ideas to see what other users think.

Help => IDLE Help displays an offline copy of idle.html as of the release date in a tktinker text window.  Have you noticed that?  Would "IDLE doc" be clearer?

I could also add label with the online url and date above the text.
[https://docs.python.org/3.x/library/idle.html as of <release date>]
msg369709 - (view) Author: Ama Aje My Fren (amaajemyfren) * Date: 2020-05-23 10:00
>
> I could also add label with the online url and date above the text.
> [https://docs.python.org/3.x/library/idle.html as of <release date>]
>
> Maybe this is a bit messy?

I may be wrong but I suspect that most people on docs.python.org use none
dev versions. For us, most likely, we keep to the releases (maybe behind
the very current version, but unlikely that we are compiling in the latest
bug fixes, or (and here I could be absolutely wrong) pulling from a
distribution that is). (If they are compiling their own Python with bug
fixes, is it fair to assume they are also preparing their own
documentation? Not sure.)

Say I am using Python 3.7.5, the documentation, being for Python 3.7.7, is
(hopefully?) sufficient for me to know it is not the same as the IDLE I am
using - the addition of the date may help emphasize the point, but chances
are I don't track the release schedule/know when my IDLE was packaged for
me and so it may only further confuse me. I suggest that if the page has
the release version don't also provide the "as of <release date>" .
Now if Documentation for all patchlevels were available ... but I suspect
that may not be possible.

Thinking about it though Paul said:

So I looked for it on the main docs page, docs.python.org, and didn't
find it there.  I ended up finding it by web search.
>
>
 From 3.5 there is a search on the top right of docs.python.org: @phr is
that what you meant by web search or did you use google/bing/etc? Most
likely many people use the search to find what they want from
docs.python.org ... or it is hardly used.

On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 4:14 AM Terry J. Reedy <report@bugs.python.org>
wrote:

>
> Terry J. Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> added the comment:
>
> I agree that finding the online doc is slight pain.  It is not listed in
> the Modules index because idlelib, not IDLE, is the stdlib module, and does
> not have a doc page.  I may add one or, if possible, make the page serve as
> one, as part of this issue.  'IDLE' *is* in the Index, and the first link
> is the correct one.
>
> I don't control and would not unilaterally change the main page.  I am
> hesitant because I expect that there are people who would think it unfair
> or deceptive to especially promote IDLE this way versus other stdlib
> packages and non-stdlib IDEs and editors.  I might subscribe to and post on
> python-ideas to see what other users think.
>
> Help => IDLE Help displays an offline copy of idle.html as of the release
> date in a tktinker text window.  Have you noticed that?  Would "IDLE doc"
> be clearer?
>
> I could also add label with the online url and date above the text.
> [https://docs.python.org/3.x/library/idle.html as of <release date>]
>
> ----------
> nosy: +taleinat
> stage:  -> needs patch
> title: mention IDLE in main python docs page -> Make IDLE doc more
> visible, mention in main python docs page
> versions: +Python 3.10, Python 3.7, Python 3.8, Python 3.9
>
> _______________________________________
> Python tracker <report@bugs.python.org>
> <https://bugs.python.org/issue40733>
> _______________________________________
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> To unsubscribe send an email to docs-leave@python.org
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> Member address: amaajemyfren@gmail.com
>
msg369710 - (view) Author: paul rubin (phr) Date: 2020-05-23 10:05
I think I used duckduckgo to find the docs.  They don't change much between versions and I was trying to find how to do a specific thing.  My installation has the docs included but it didn't explain how to do what I wanted, so I had hoped there was a more complete doc on docs.python.org.  Unfortunately it turned out to be the same doc.  The functionality I wanted (to put a startup script in .idlerc) seems to not exist though.  I'll research workarounds a bit further and possibly open an RFE if people think that sounds right.
msg369719 - (view) Author: Terry J. Reedy (terry.reedy) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-05-23 14:14
Ama, when responding by email, please leave out the full quote of the message you are responding to.  (A snippet of at most a few lines is ok.) Once posted, it becomes redundant noise.
msg369721 - (view) Author: Terry J. Reedy (terry.reedy) * (Python committer) Date: 2020-05-23 14:19
Paul, the doc has the following line
 -s         run $IDLESTARTUP or $PYTHONSTARTUP before anything else
msg369726 - (view) Author: Ama Aje My Fren (amaajemyfren) * Date: 2020-05-23 15:58
> I think I used duckduckgo to find the docs.

Ok,

I just checked and when one has scrolled down the search is not seen.
In most browsers web search is easier than searching on the docs site.
History
Date User Action Args
2020-05-23 15:58:43amaajemyfrensetfiles: + docs.python.org.png

messages: + msg369726
2020-05-23 14:19:44terry.reedysetmessages: + msg369721
2020-05-23 14:14:13terry.reedysetmessages: + msg369719
2020-05-23 10:05:27phrsetmessages: + msg369710
2020-05-23 10:00:52amaajemyfrensetnosy: + amaajemyfren
messages: + msg369709
2020-05-23 01:14:20terry.reedysetnosy: + taleinat
title: mention IDLE in main python docs page -> Make IDLE doc more visible, mention in main python docs page
messages: + msg369680

versions: + Python 3.7, Python 3.8, Python 3.9, Python 3.10
stage: needs patch
2020-05-22 20:36:13phrsettitle: mention IDLE in main python ocs page -> mention IDLE in main python docs page
2020-05-22 20:28:38ned.deilysetnosy: + terry.reedy
components: + IDLE
2020-05-22 20:27:42phrcreate