Hi,

Last september I already proposed the same thing for Python 3.6 (issue #28099), but Ned Deily asked to keep OS X Tiger supper.

The Tiger buildbot fails since many years:
http://buildbot.python.org/all/builders/x86%20Tiger%203.x/builds/479/steps/test/logs/stdio

It doesn't seem like anyone take care of this buildbot.

Mac OS X Tiger was released in 2004 (13 years ago). The last update was 10.4.11: November 14, 2007 (9 years ago).

"Support status: Unsupported as of September 2009, Safari support ended November 2010."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_Tiger

Is there any downside to keeping this code?

>The Tiger buildbot fails since many years:
>http://buildbot.python.org/all/builders/x86%20Tiger%203.x/builds/479/steps/test/logs/stdio

That's not true.  The one failing test, test_uuid, was just added last month.  Note that the 3.5 Tiger buildbot has not test failures.

So, one question that perhaps you and Barry can answer is what is the significance of that failure.

>It doesn't seem like anyone take care of this buildbot.

That's also not true.  David Bolen, the owner of the buildbot, is very responsive to requests for updates of third-party libraries on the buildbot.

Getting back to the support of OS X 10.4, to the best of my knowledge we currently do not document anywhere exactly what levels of OS X we support.  We could do that and, yes, we could explicitly drop support for 10.4.  However, at the moment, there just seems to be this one issue which we should understand better before deciding anything.  But, more importantly, at the moment, the 10.4 Tiger buildbot is the *only* working Mac buildbot we have.  Two other Mac buildbots we've had, the "Snow Leopard" and "Yosemite" buildbots have been off-line for many months.  Until we have other working OS X buildbots, the Tiger one should remain.  It is serving a useful purpose.

Here's where the Tiger 3.x buildbot started failing:

http://buildbot.python.org/all/builders/x86%20Tiger%203.x/builds/363

with this commit 0b8432538acf45d7a605fe68648b4712e8d9cee3

Raymond Hettinger: "Is there any downside to keeping this code?"

I don't think that we have much code specific to Tiger, except maybe some skips in unit tests. Maybe we can just remove the buildbot but don't touch the code.

My issue is more that I would like to see green buildbots. I don't see the purpose of having a buildbot if it's known to be broken. It's a pain to recall which buildbots are known to be broken or not.


> That's not true.  The one failing test, test_uuid, was just added last month.  Note that the 3.5 Tiger buildbot has not test failures.

Ah? I didn't know. Maybe my issue was more that Tiger fails randomly. In fact, I don't recall exactly why I wanted to drop Tiger support :-)


> But, more importantly, at the moment, the 10.4 Tiger buildbot is the *only* working Mac buildbot we have.

Oh wow, I didn't know. Travis CI provides Linux containers, AppVeyor provides Windows VMs. Is there a similar free service for macOS? Or maybe not free for everyone, but free for the Python CI?


> Here's where the Tiger 3.x buildbot started failing: (...)

I created the issue #29925 for test_uuid failure.


> Until we have other working OS X buildbots, the Tiger one should remain.  It is serving a useful purpose.

My general view on buildbots is that one buildbot needs a maintainer or should go away.

Yeah, I have to long term plan to remove most buildbots :-D For example, the situation didn't evolved for the OpenIndiana buildbot...

All tests pass again on 2.7, 3.5, 3.6 and master branches, so I have no more reason to drop Tiger support :-)

I close the issue. I may reopen it later if I find a better reason to drop Tiger support ;-)

Duplicating my message to issue 28099 here:

TBH I don't think we need to care about OS X Tiger.  I mean Apple itself doesn't care about it anymore, the last release was 10 years ago.  How about we drop its buildbot?

I don't see any point in fixing asyncio for Tiger.

This issue is now closed, it should be reopened if you want to reopen the discussion. The question for Tiger is how to debug bugs, since Apple forces macOS upgrades, so most users only run the latest macOS version...

Yury, is there a current problem with running on 10.4?  Yes, it's very old but it's been very stable and very good at finding compatibility issues with non-mainstream operating systems.  Unless there's a burning issue, let's revisit this after beta 1.

> Unless there's a burning issue, let's revisit this after beta 1.

There're no burning issues currently, last fixes to asyncio made the buildbot happy.  I'm totally fine to revisit this later.

Update: due to recent changes at github.com to no longer support older implementations of SSL/TLS, the git client on the macOS 10.4 Tiger buildbot server has stopped working. We had a brief discussion with David Bolen, the buildbot's owner, and decided it was no longer worth trying to upgrade git there just to keep those 10.4 buildbots running.  That doesn't necessarily mean we are intentionally breaking 10.4 support in 3.7 (or other supported Python versions) but we will no longer be doing any CI testing via our buildbot farm and can't guarantee that it will continue to work.  I will add a note somewhere about that in the 3.7 documentation prior to final release.

https://mail.python.org/mm3/archives/list/buildbot-status@python.org/thread/5DXFBUROSMEDB3QTAZDATD64R3IRV2UG/