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Title: mix-up with the terms 'importer', 'finder', 'loader' in the import system and related code
Type: Stage: resolved
Components: Library (Lib) Versions: Python 3.6
Status: closed Resolution: fixed
Dependencies: Superseder:
Assigned To: brett.cannon Nosy List: Oren Milman, berker.peksag, brett.cannon, martin.panter, orsenthil, python-dev
Priority: normal Keywords: patch

Created on 2016-04-30 20:01 by Oren Milman, last changed 2022-04-11 14:58 by admin. This issue is now closed.

File name Uploaded Description Edit
issue.diff Oren Milman, 2016-04-30 20:01 proporsed patches diff file review
CPythonTestOutput.txt Oren Milman, 2016-04-30 20:07 test output on my PC of CPython without my patches
patchedCPythonTestOutput.txt Oren Milman, 2016-04-30 20:08 test output on my PC of CPython with my patches
issue26896-3.3.diff orsenthil, 2016-09-07 07:50
Messages (13)
msg264576 - (view) Author: Oren Milman (Oren Milman) * Date: 2016-04-30 20:01
the proposed changes:
1. it seems there is some mix-up with the terms 'importer' and 'finder' (and rarely also 'loader') in the import system and in related code (I guess most of it is just relics from the time before PEP 302).
The rational is simply, which means (as I understand it) that the only place where 'importer' is appropriate is where the described object is guaranteed to be both a finder and loader object (i.e. currently only any of the following: BuiltinImporter, FrozenImporter, ZipImporter, mock_modules, mock_spec, TestingImporter).

Note: At first I pondered about also changing local variable names and even the name of a static C function, so I posted a question to the core-mentorship mailing list, and ultimately accepted (of course) the answer - - fix only docs.

these proposed changes are in the following files:
    - Python/import.c (also changed the line saying that get_path_importer returning None tells the caller it should fall back to the built-in import mechanism, as it is no longer true, according to As I understand it, the last is indeed the right one)
    - Doc/c-api/import.rst (also changed the parallel doc of the aforementioned comment in Python/import.c)
    - Lib/
    - Doc/Library/pkgutil.rst
    - Lib/ (also changed the function comment of _get_module_details, which specified wrong return values)
    - Lib/test/

2. While scanning every CPython file that contains the string 'importer', Anaconda (a Sublime Package for Python) found two local variable assignments which were never used. I commented both out (and added a comment stating why). I would be happy to change those two tiny fixes if needed. 

these proposed changes are in the following files:
    - Lib/test/test_importlib/import_/
    - Lib/test/test_importlib/

The patches diff is attached.

I built the changed *.rst files, and they looked fine.

I played a little with the interpreter, and everything worked as usual.
In addition, I run 'python -m test' (on my 64-bit Windows 10) before and after applying the patch, and got quite the same output.
the outputs of both runs are attached.
msg264580 - (view) Author: Berker Peksag (berker.peksag) * (Python committer) Date: 2016-05-01 04:45
Thanks for the patch. I left two review comments about unused variables on Rietveld.
msg264669 - (view) Author: Oren Milman (Oren Milman) * Date: 2016-05-02 20:57
thanks for the review!

I replied to both of your comments, though I am not sure what is expected of me in the rest of the process.
Whatever it is, I would be happy to help as much as I can.
msg269234 - (view) Author: Martin Panter (martin.panter) * (Python committer) Date: 2016-06-25 12:26
Oren: If you have extra changes to make on the same topic, it is probably best to make a new patch that combines both the original changes plus the new changes.

Brett: Since you were responsible for the two dead assignments, your input would be helpful. Perhaps you meant to add extra code and forgot, or perhaps they are just useless and we can remove them.

I skimmed over PEP 302, and it seems it uses the term “importer” more or less to mean what the current glossary terms “finder”. I.e. the first object to help with importing a module. Or maybe it means the system behind both the finder and loader stages, even if one object does not perform both steps. I don’t know much about this, but another option could be to redefine “importer” as it is more generally used.
msg269241 - (view) Author: Oren Milman (Oren Milman) * Date: 2016-06-25 15:10
Except for some trailing spaces I have just found in my original proposed patches, I don't have any extra changes to add. So as soon as Brett answers about those two assignments, I would update and upload the patches diff file.

With regard to terminology, I believe 'Explicit is better than implicit' fits here.
IMHO using (in the code and docs) each of the three terms explicitly, with accordance to the glossary (,,, all of which were first added back in revision 51025, BTW), makes the import mechanism clearer (than using 'importer' as an ambiguous term).
msg269243 - (view) Author: Oren Milman (Oren Milman) * Date: 2016-06-25 15:24
Also, Brett was the one who added the three terms to the glossary in, and a clarification of 'finder' in, so I guess his input in this matter also would be helpful.

(If both of you think the other way, I am probably wrong :) )
msg269999 - (view) Author: Roundup Robot (python-dev) (Python triager) Date: 2016-07-08 18:00
New changeset c65f34dafcc1 by Brett Cannon in branch 'default':
Issue #26896: Disambiguate uses of "importer" with "finder".
msg270000 - (view) Author: Brett Cannon (brett.cannon) * (Python committer) Date: 2016-07-08 18:00
Thanks for the patch, Oren! Only change I made was deleting the lines you commented out in the tests.
msg270006 - (view) Author: Oren Milman (Oren Milman) * Date: 2016-07-08 19:20
That's awesome! Thanks :)
msg274479 - (view) Author: Senthil Kumaran (orsenthil) * (Python committer) Date: 2016-09-06 00:23
The documentation changes made as part of this issue were applicable to 3.5 branch too. 

I had to touch the docs in this area as part of issue20842, and ended up with two patches one for 3.5 and another 3.6.

I think, it is a good idea to backport the change to 3.5 branch.
msg274569 - (view) Author: Brett Cannon (brett.cannon) * (Python committer) Date: 2016-09-06 17:06
It sounds like you have a backport ready, Senthil. Is that true? If so then go ahead and apply the changes.

You're right it could be backported, I just didn't due to laziness/lack of time.
msg274773 - (view) Author: Senthil Kumaran (orsenthil) * (Python committer) Date: 2016-09-07 07:50
Hi Brett, I backported only portions of the patch some this issue that were applicable to the issue that I was fixing. I will backport remain portions so that everything will be consistent now.
msg274774 - (view) Author: Roundup Robot (python-dev) (Python triager) Date: 2016-09-07 07:53
New changeset 7537ca1c2aaf by Senthil Kumaran in branch '3.5':
[backport to 3.5] - issue26896 - Disambiguate uses of "importer" with "finder".
Date User Action Args
2022-04-11 14:58:30adminsetgithub: 71083
2016-09-07 07:53:45python-devsetmessages: + msg274774
2016-09-07 07:50:53orsenthilsetfiles: + issue26896-3.3.diff

messages: + msg274773
2016-09-06 17:06:30brett.cannonsetmessages: + msg274569
2016-09-06 00:23:00orsenthilsetnosy: + orsenthil
messages: + msg274479
2016-07-08 19:20:44Oren Milmansetmessages: + msg270006
2016-07-08 18:00:40brett.cannonsetstatus: open -> closed
resolution: fixed
messages: + msg270000

stage: patch review -> resolved
2016-07-08 18:00:08python-devsetnosy: + python-dev
messages: + msg269999
2016-06-25 18:01:40brett.cannonsetassignee: brett.cannon
2016-06-25 15:24:29Oren Milmansetmessages: + msg269243
2016-06-25 15:10:46Oren Milmansetmessages: + msg269241
2016-06-25 12:26:20martin.pantersetnosy: + martin.panter
messages: + msg269234
2016-05-02 20:57:47Oren Milmansetmessages: + msg264669
2016-05-01 04:45:35berker.peksagsetnosy: + berker.peksag
messages: + msg264580
2016-05-01 04:28:29berker.peksagsetnosy: + brett.cannon

stage: patch review
2016-04-30 20:08:38Oren Milmansetfiles: + patchedCPythonTestOutput.txt
2016-04-30 20:07:21Oren Milmansetfiles: + CPythonTestOutput.txt
2016-04-30 20:01:36Oren Milmancreate